Tuesday, November 28, 2006

I've Made a Decision

Micah has been kind enough to engage me on how well the American Revolution fares in light of the Biblical teaching to submit to governing authorities.

From the outlook, this has been troublesome for me. Why so troublesome? I believe there are two reasons. First, I am overtly patriotic. Second, I have been raised in a post-Enlightenment era in a nation greatly influenced by the Enlightenment which provides a great many liberties won as a byproduct of the Enlightenment (how many times can you use “Enlightenment” in one sentence? =)). What it comes down to is a desire to uphold the American Revolution in a positive light. I have agonized over the possibility that our forefathers might have been hasty in their actions – even wrong. So it has been difficult.

I dismiss outright that the colonists were justified in rebelling because of Britain’s cruelty. After all, Paul penned the words of Romans 13 at a time when Christians were heavily persecuted by the government. People are to submit to all authority because it is God who places leaders over us.

The only argument that even stands a chance for the sake of the revolutionists is that England only had the appearance of governing the colonies, and not any meaningful governing authority.

Colonial America was founded by Europe; primarily Great Britain. Over the course of the 17th and 18th centuries, the colonies grew more and more distant from the “mother country.” England seemed a far off place which had little relevance to them – except to provide egregious taxation. In fact, leading up to the Revolutionary War, most colonists did not consider themselves “Englishmen.” The point is: England wasn’t around. I think a good case can be made to support that the colonists had been self-governed for quite a while.

But then one must consider that it was colonials who committed the first acts of terror against the British. It was the colonials who would not accept the British claim of authority. It was the colonists who declared independence from Britain. I asked myself this question: why would the colonists declare independence if they were already independent? Was it a formality? Or was it a response to the new-found desire of the British Crown to retain the neglected colonies?

I think both are excellent points. Therefore it seems to be a grey area.

Don’t get me wrong, I say this as one who has a deep love for my country. I truly believe that the United States of America is the greatest nation the world has ever seen (other than the nation of Israel under the blessing of the Lord). Our land provides for more freedoms and liberties than any people on earth. America has experienced many mercies from our Lord. I am glad for the way things have turned out.

Even so, I cannot offer my full support for the American Revolution. At best, it is a debatable issue. If you know me well, you know that I tend to side on the conservative side of things – which means that were I alive during the late 18th century, my support for American independence would be iffy.

There you have it. Don’t hate me. I love America. Now that we are independent, I am grateful for such a blessed nation.

Lemme know your thoughts.

Rusty

13 Comments:

At 9:14 PM, Blogger The Paasch-inator said...

Good thoughts, Rusty @ 7:00 am! I've thought about the issue myself quite a bit. The question has come before, as well as, for example, the involvement of Christians in the plan to overthrow (even assassinate!) Hitler in the Second World War. (I'm reminded of Dietrich Bonhoeffer.) One has to be mindful of these things. Although perhaps we may enjoy the results (and do we ever!)... just because things turned out alright for us doesn't mean our forefathers were necessarily right in doing them.

Hmmm....

I have to say my involvement would've been iffy as well, in the case of the American Revolution. In the Second World War, my stance is even grey-er. (There, I just made myself a word.)

I trust the Lord's power to provide strength and wisdom to His people according to their need and in the time they have been given. This, at least, I know for sure.

Good thoughts, Case.

 
At 11:34 PM, Blogger rustypth said...

Thanks for your thoughts miss Hannah.

Food for thought - with regards to WWII or any war ... do you believe a nation has the right to defend itself? Even more specific: do you believe a nation has the right to defend itself against a dictator with world domination as one of his goals?

I look forward to hearing your thoughts =)

 
At 6:05 PM, Blogger Lockheed said...

wow... cool... great post. I'm still processing.

I think about the events leading up to the revolution, specifically the Boston tea "party" and such, and cannot believe those to be events Christians should have engaged in.

As to the WWII question... that too is difficult. If one was a Christian German citizen, then violently attacking Hitler, his forces and the like would, in my opinion, be wrong whereas providing refuge for Jews and others would not. I believe that the Bible presents us some case-law when we look at the demand of the Babylonian king for the Jews to worship his god (or the giant chocolate bunny, for those who know such things). When commanded to disobey God, one must obey God and rebel against the state, and in that way only do are we to do so.

That said, if a Christian were in the armed forces of the United States or other Allied country, then it would be their duty to kill, whenever commanded to, the enemy including the leader of opposing country if possible.

Any thoughts?

 
At 8:45 PM, Blogger rustypth said...

Micah,

Completely agree with you mate.

 
At 10:10 PM, Blogger The Paasch-inator said...

Hmmmm....

Well, as far as WWII goes, I'm still working through that. I was told once that Dietrich Bonhoeffer considered himself as just another soldier in warfare. I guess I can see that. I also don't see how a plan for assassination really fits in at all with a biblical way of life. That would require a lot of prayer and counsel and reading of Scripture, would it not??? :)

 
At 12:09 AM, Blogger rustypth said...

Hannah,

Do you mean a government assasinating a foreign government's leader(s)? Or a citizen killing his own government's leader(s)?

 
At 8:09 AM, Blogger The Paasch-inator said...

WELL... in this case, it would be the citizen killing his own government's leader. I'm not sure... can you differentiate?

 
At 10:18 AM, Blogger Lockheed said...

...can you differentiate?

Yes. When Christ spoke to soliders he did not give them instructions to leave their posts or not to fight. Throughout Scripture we see God commanding even participating in warfare against enemies of one nation or another. Thus it seems evident that, unlike the pacifist cults believe, God allows for believers in armed services and their engaging in warfare.

There's a difference however with taking matters into one's own hands and rebelling against one's own state. I think what Paul says in Romans 13 prevents this.

So, for the person in WWII who wanted to do something, they could have fled the country (if possible), declared citizenship in another, and joined the fight, OR participated in taking care of others within their own country.

 
At 9:16 PM, Blogger Jonathan Roberts said...

Interesting points.

Here's a passage that deals directly with this situation, though the application of it may have some grey areas:

"Submit yourselves for the Lord's sake to every authority instituted among men, whether to the king, as the supreme authority, or to governors, those who are sent by him to punish those who do wrong and to commend those who do right. For it is God's will that by doing good you should silence the ignorant talk of foolish men."

-1 Peter 2:13-15

 
At 11:32 PM, Blogger The Paasch-inator said...

.... "leave as free men... but do not use your freedom as a cover up for evil. Live as servants of God."

1 Peter. Good stuff. Thank you, John, for the Scripture. This should indeed be our guide in all things.

(Many thanks to the illustrious Mr. Brently Klontz for the really um, COOL tune that comes into my head every time I read that verse. We memorized the book together by song ... yes, song... and Brent, in his incredible creativity, made some unforgettable contributions. Good memories, Brently.)

 
At 11:33 PM, Blogger The Paasch-inator said...

That's "live as free men." I bite my tongue.

 
At 11:21 AM, Blogger Amy said...

hmmm...very interesting points! I agree with pretty much everything that has been said. I do think that a country should be able to defend itself because even in the Bible there are places where God tells Israel to wipe a certain nation or group people off the face of the earth. God is pretty straight forward about it and Israel actually was punished for not completely obeying this command.

In the case of the Second World War, I'm not sure. It is definitely a grey area. I don't think that it would be right as believers to try to assasinate Hitler only because he was trying to exterminate the Jews, he wasn't really telling the people to bow down to another God. And don't get me wrong, I definitely think that it is wrong to try to exterminate a group of people. I definitely do not agree with that under any circumstances. I also am not sure about giving refuge to Jews in that scenario. I believe that it would be fine to give them refuge but I don't think that it is ok to lie to the authorities in order to hide them.

Any thoughts?

 
At 12:06 AM, Blogger Prince Cor said...

Well said, Micah

 

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