Biblical Standards for Entertainment
Yesterday afternoon I went with two buddies to see a movie. Based on the recommendation of others, we went to see Crank. It starts off pretty cool. Some suweet visual shots. Great music (not sure about the lyrics though). The plot had the potential to be interesting. Then the bad language started comin. F-bombs and other choice words. Within seven minutes there was nudity. My flesh had temporary victory over me as I remember thinking to myself, "Well, HOPEFULLY that was the only nude scene. It should get better now..." Ten seconds later, MORE NUDITY! I whispered to each of my friends that I would be takin off. They joined me within a few moments.
Don't think that I always walk out of bad movies. I don't. But I should. I know I should.
Anyways, I traded my ticket in for a ticket to Invincible. Great flic! Very wholesome, and encouraging, and moral, and it had make-your-eyes-water-moments. I was amazed at the vast difference between these two films.
All of this has really caused me to pause and think about Biblical standards for entertainment. Let's consider movies. How many curse words are too many? What curse words are too bad? Just the F-Bomb? Two F-Bombs?! Dare I say ... THREE F-BOMBS?!?! Do we really want to expose ourselves to violence? How much nakedness is crossing the line? Partial nudity?
The worst question by far, is this: would you feel comfortable watching such and such movie with the Lord Jesus?
If you're like me, you are more than likely thinking along these lines: "So we shouldn't watch any movies then? No TV? Listen to nothing but Christian music? You sound like you're afraid of the world, Case. Don't be so legalistic. Don't be such a kill-joy. Christian liiiiiiiiiberty! I have Christian liiiberty! And that means that just because explitives, nudity, and violence offend you, doesn't mean it offends all of us. You're obviously the weaker brother. So please don't apply your subjective standards onto me."
I just want to say right now that I am not about to stop watching all movies. I still plan on watching TV. I will still listen to non-Christian radio. What I do want to do is "up" the standards I use to filter what I'm entertained by.
John said something that I completely agree with: "Our goal shouldn't be to see how close we can get to the line without crossing it. Our goal should be to flee from immorality." Amen! We are to be a holy people, set apart for good deeds. I understand that we have liberty in Christ. But we better make sure not to cover up our sins under the guise of "Christian liberty."
I need to get better at allowing Scripture to define what is acceptable entertainment for me. So what Scripture says is offensive - I need to be offended by that. What Scripture says is good - I need to enjoy that.
"...but I want you to be wise in what is good and innocent in what is evil." (Romans 16:9) <--- kudos to John for bringing this up.
Just some thoughts folks. Just some thoughts.
In Christ,
CoB
posted by rustypth @ 7:00 AM
31 comments
31 Comments:
Can't help but notice that you called for Biblical Standards for entertainment, and then really didn't set forth any.
How about your series of questions: How many curse words are too many? What curse words are too bad? Just the F-Bomb? Two F-Bombs?! Dare I say ... THREE F-BOMBS?!?! Do we really want to expose ourselves to violence? How much nakedness is crossing the line? Partial nudity? What're your answers? What's the standard? Where does one draw the line?
(btw, "f-bombs"? really? who uses that phrase?)
Not saying you're wrong here, Rusty. Just asking for more.
Hobs: This post is not meant to be an exhaustive argument for specific guidelines of standards of morality. "Just some thoughts folks. Just some thoughts." =)
But to say that I didn't set forth any guidelines at all? That isn't true: "The worst question by far, is this: would you feel comfortable watching such and such movie with the Lord Jesus?"
and, "John said something that I completely agree with: "Our goal shouldn't be to see how close we can get to the line without crossing it. Our goal should be to flee from immorality." Amen! We are to be a holy people, set apart for good deeds. I understand that we have liberty in Christ. But we better make sure not to cover up our sins under the guise of "Christian liberty." I need to get better at allowing Scripture to define what is acceptable entertainment for me. So what Scripture says is offensive - I need to be offended by that. What Scripture says is good - I need to enjoy that. "...but I want you to be wise in what is good and innocent in what is evil." (Romans 16:9) <--- kudos to John for bringing this up."
You said, "(btw, "f-bombs"? really? who uses that phrase?)"
I'm surprised you haven't heard it? It's pretty common, actually.
You said, "Not saying you're wrong here, Rusty. Just asking for more."
This entry is pretty much all I have to say about it atm =). Sorry yo
BUT this doesn't mean I won't have more to say in the near future. This is just a lot to think about
I too enjoyed that conversation we had the other night. It was productive and encouraging.
See ya online!
Equilibrim FTW
"would you feel comfortable watching such and such movie with the Lord Jesus?"
??? Or perhaps having dinner with tax collectors and prostitutes!
Micah: I honestly don't get it =)
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
[deleted earlier version due to typoes that would've cost me sleep]
of course, I've heard "f-bomb," just didn't figu...ach, never mind.
"The worst question by far, is this: would you feel comfortable watching such and such movie with the Lord Jesus?"
Aw, c'mon, you can do better...that's not a guideline, that's a pietistic slogan on a bracelet you pick up at a Family Christian Knick-Knack Store. (btw, thanks for the chuckle, Micah)
"...but I want you to be wise in what is good and innocent in what is evil." (Romans 16:9) [sic]
Okay, what's that mean in reference to this discussion?
Phil. 4:8 Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable - if anything is EXCELLENT or PRAISEWORTHY - think about such things.
Fair 'nuff. Not going to debate the application of this verse (or any others) to the idea. But how is this to be applied?
Operationally define these words that you're using.
I need to get better at allowing Scripture to define what is acceptable entertainment for me. So what Scripture says is offensive - I need to be offended by that. What Scripture says is good - I need to enjoy that.
Cool. How?
How many curse words are too many? What curse words are too bad? Just the F-Bomb? Two F-Bombs?! Dare I say ... THREE F-BOMBS?!?! Do we really want to expose ourselves to violence? How much nakedness is crossing the line? Partial nudity? What're your answers? What's the standard? Where does one draw the line?
Love to hear some answers...really.
"of course, I've heard "f-bomb," just didn't figu...ach, never mind."
"Aalllriighty then" -- Carry
"Aw, c'mon, you can do better...that's not a guideline, that's a pietistic slogan on a bracelet you pick up at a Family Christian Knick-Knack Store. (btw, thanks for the chuckle, Micah)"
No comment.
"Okay, what's that mean in reference to this discussion?"
Again, this isn't meant to be a full defense for anything specific. I understand that you would like me to provide, in detail, some stances on the series of questions I asked ... I don't have answers yet. =). If I did, you, and others who know me well enough, know that I would've posted answers =). Those are just some serious questions that I am struggling with answering.
"Love to hear some answers...really."
When I have them, you'll be the first to know. Promise. Well, maybe 2nd or 3rd.
"...(btw, thanks for the chuckle, Micah)"
I loled because I'm not sure what Micah is implying =)
Case of Base
simmer down, buddy...it's the caffeine, isn't it?
...knew it'd get ya at some point.
8-)
Just consider my posts as encouragements to come up with some answers (or new questions...whichever you think is best). I'll keep my powder dry 'til then.
/me makes a Word Document Note-to-Self =)
LOL
Micah is implying that it is possible to enjoy aspects of secular world and artwork without giving approval or engaging in other aspects thereof.
More pointedly, I , like Hobster, was reacting to the "WWJD" statement in your post... I believe it is a short jump from asking that question, "would you feel comfortable watching such and such movie with the Lord Jesus" and asking "would you feel comfortable eating and drinking with prostitutes such and with the Lord Jesus?"
Hannah says, "Jesus never partook in the sinners' sin with them!'
Sure, the sinners Christ was eating and drinking with must have always been on their best behavior.
First, I find it a shame to discover that this entry has 17 comments, most of which are unhappy in nature. Then I discover that an entry posted yesterday about Mormonism has two comments. Anyone see a problem here?
Also, it offends me when my question: "The worst question by far, is this: would you feel comfortable watching such and such movie with the Lord Jesus?" is made fun of as lame. It is a sincere question folks. If you don't like it then I'd rather you keep it to yourself =).
Third: less sarcasm please.
Lastly, I wrote an entry about comments here: http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=9541433&postID=113316748428080078 and I will be using my right to ignore any other comments on this post. Just an fyi.
Case
Seriously, I agree, much less sarcasm...I actually thought the question about being comfortable watching the movie with Jesus was a great question...honestly, what can you have against it? Everything in it is true. The only reason I can see that you might have something against it was if you were convicted. I certainly was because I know I've messed up several times in this area.
First, I find it a shame to discover that this entry has 17 comments, most of which are unhappy in nature. Then I discover that an entry posted yesterday about Mormonism has two comments. Anyone see a problem here?
No, you were dead on in the Mormonism post... figured you didn't need cheerleading. :)
Also, it offends me when my question: "The worst question by far, is this: would you feel comfortable watching such and such movie with the Lord Jesus?" is made fun of as lame. It is a sincere question folks. If you don't like it then I'd rather you keep it to yourself =).
It's really no different than WWJD, and that's what's suprising. I expected something... a bit deeper from you than that.
Third: less sarcasm please.
Again, the sarcasm is in response to the suprise comments that really seem so far from everything we as Reformed Christians believe. It's one thing to note that a film is filth and not worthy of the $9 we paid for it, its another to seemingly point the finger at the rest of us... honestly your WWJD question perhaps misses the pt. How many of us would be "comfortable" with the Son of God sitting next to us regardless of what we were doing, be it watching football or whatever.
Finally, the reason we're writing is that we really love you! And the 'sarcasm' is less intended to hurt rather to perhaps poke and generate fruitful discussion.
I apologize.
Micah
M-Dog,
You said, “No, you were dead on in the Mormonism post... figured you didn't need cheerleading. :)”
First, thanks. Second, my point wasn’t about needing cheerleading. It is a bit disheartening to have an entire discussion about why I haven’t provided a lengthy discussion on this subject. Just haven’t gotten to it yet =).
You said, “It's really no different than WWJD, and that's what's surprising. I expected something... a bit deeper from you than that.”
My statement was: “The worst question by far, is this: would you feel comfortable watching such and such movie with the Lord Jesus?” If you’re saying this isn’t “deep” then we will have to disagree about that. Even if this reminds you of WWJD, does that automatically make it shallow? If so, why? Is taking seriously the life of Christ and wanting to follow after his footsteps shallow? Because you know me well enough to know that I am not using this in a slogan-like way. Sooo when I see something I shouldn’t see in a film, I think we should consider if Christ would be okay with that.
With regards to Christ eating with tax-collectors and sinners – you know as well as I that that situation was very different than watching a movie. One is ministry; the other is entertainment. Never have I said that we shouldn’t interact with unbelievers. We must if we are to preach the gospel. But we certainly do not engage in sin with the unregenerate. Nor should we unnecessarily spend time with unbelievers who will influence us in the practices of the world.
You said, “Again, the sarcasm is in response to the surprise comments that really seem so far from everything we as Reformed Christians believe.”
Like what?
You said, “It's one thing to note that a film is filth and not worthy of the $9 we paid for it, its another to seemingly point the finger at the rest of us... honestly your WWJD question perhaps misses the pt.”
Who said I was pointing a finger at you or anyone else? In my question, I was using “you” in the general sense, not towards anyone in particular.
You said, “How many of us would be "comfortable" with the Son of God sitting next to us regardless of what we were doing, be it watching football or whatever.”
I’d feel a lot more comfortable watching football with the Lord than I would watching Crank. That’s my point =)
You said, “Finally, the reason we're writing is that we really love you! And the 'sarcasm' is less intended to hurt rather to perhaps poke and generate fruitful discussion.”
I really appreciate that Micah. I love you too, brother.
Rusty
I don't believe that the prostitutes and tax collectors were always on their best behavior. Probably far from it. But, I don't believe that Jesus ever took part in that. Like Rusty said, it was ministry, not entertainment. Just as the Scriptures say, we are to be in the world not of it. I think that that is just the example that Jesus gives us in this instance. And honestly, Micah, you're right, I wouldn't feel comfortable doing a lot of the things that I do around Jesus Christ, but that is the sin in me! If I wouldn't feel comfortable doing it with Jesus with me, then why do it, because He is there and He sees everything we do whether we are constantly conscious of that or not...
just some thoughts...
I honestly feel like a man jumping into an ongoing race, in which the teams partaking all know each other prior to starting.
/me wonders if any other #pros folks remember Abruer17....
Casey, I understand your uncomfortableness regarding watching a movie like that. In fact, I've often felt the same. Yet recently I've watched the movie "American Wedding" and, perhaps a bit of shame comes with saying this, enjoyed it. The next day "The 40 Year Old Virgin" was loaded into the X-Box. Each of these movies deals with vulgar themes and invokes, on occasion, erotic images and language. My internal defense was "It doesn't cause me to sin." And, honestly, it does not. Neither does it produce rude language or vulgar actions.
And should that not be one of our guiding principles? As Jesus tells us, “"It is not what enters into the mouth that defiles the man, but what proceeds out of the mouth, this defiles the man." Am I clear at this moment to believe our judgments are to be derived based on how it affects us? If a man can walk down the red light district and right back out, shall we condemn him? And how do we define each of Paul’s adjectives in Phil 4:8? Do we become Puritans about it? Even by their standards, it was much influenced by the day. (I’m sorry Casey, I ended up asking questions!)
Sup Adam!
Here is how I understand your argument: It isn't what enters a man that makes him defiled, but what actions exit a man that makes him defiled. This means that nothing that enters a man is inherently evil. Therefore only some actions that leave a man are evil.
Is that a sufficient summation of your argument?
If I have properly understood your argument then does that mean that watching pornographic images is acceptable behavior because it is only entering a man (and not leaving him)?
I think this is a fair question ... considering the argument you're making.
Thanks bro,
Case of B.
To frame it within my viewpoint, if a man is viewing pornography with no affect on him in privacy, then by this principle I believe he would not be in sin.
However, and this applies with this situation, we still need to use wisdom in any situation. If I view porn for lustful reasons or watch a movie because I enjoy crude humor (as opposed to the general flow and timing of the humor, as I am with Dane Cook) then second thought must arise.
If I may, due to time constrictions, my young and possibly shortsighted view is this (to sum it up):
We should use discernment in all things, whether it will cause harm to our mind or moral standards. However, we must not judge others who, according to Paul, esteem the day differently (or who can eat and who cannot eat, Romans 15.)
But, since my mind works against me, I also read Romans 12:1 and numerous others and think, "How much of life can be 'secular' without it being degenerate?" Since, I think, most would agree life is holistic and all is done to demonstrating God's existence, this branches it much further than "What is ok to watch" to "What is unworthy worship to God?"
Heh, looks like I don't have any answers either Casey. Just alot more questions!!
Oh and thanks for keeping me in check, logically speaking. I sure do appreciate Christian brothers and sisters who can assist my often rambled brain!
In the Son!
Adam
Matthew 6:19-23 “19 "Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal, 20 but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal. 21 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also. 22 "The eye is the lamp of the body. So, if your eye is healthy, your whole body will be full of light, 23 but if your eye is bad, your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light in you is darkness, how great is the darkness!”
Jesus exhorts us to store up treasures in the next life and not in this one. Since our heart belongs with what we treasure, we ought to treasure good things – things that are helpful. The Lord then states that the human eye is the lamp of the body. If you have a healthy eye, your body will be full of light. By contrast, if you have a bad eye, your whole body will be full of darkness. So what you look at with your eyes will produce good or bad things in you. If you look at wholesome things, your body will produce wholesome things. If you look at sinful things, your body will produce sinful things.
But did you catch how Christ ended verse 23? … “If then the light in you is darkness, how great is the darkness!” If you have darkness in you it is a great amount of darkness.
You said, “To frame it within my viewpoint, if a man is viewing pornography with no affect on him in privacy, then by this principle I believe he would not be in sin.”
I’d like to meet the man who is not affected by pornographic images – I don’t believe such a man exists.
Do you really want to defend that it is Biblically acceptable to view other human beings naked? Or having sex?
Lastly, keeping in mind that to look at a woman with lust is to commit adultery (Matt 5:27-28), how does your position stand up against the following texts:
Proverbs 6:32, "32 The one who commits adultery with a woman is lacking sense; He who would destroy himself does it."
And
Proverbs 30:20, "20 This is the way of an adulterous woman: She eats and wipes her mouth, And says, "I have done no wrong.""
In Christ,
Rustyrust
Amy wrote: And honestly, Micah, you're right, I wouldn't feel comfortable doing a lot of the things that I do around Jesus Christ, but that is the sin in me!
Or maybe that's false piety telling you that certain things are somehow ungodly? This is the real concern. If you'd be uncomfortable doing something around Christ... who is omnipresent anyway... why are you doing them?
Are they really sinful and ungodly or are they simply not "holy" enough for us to consider them as part of the normal Christian life?
There is a gnostic tendency in Christian circles to view our daily lives as somehow less Christian than what we do Sunday mornings.
Intent is important here.
and when do you announce that you're getting rid of all your Star Wars DVDs?
Just want to know...do I keep following the comment thread here? Or are you gonna have a separate post on it?
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Hobs: Are you responding to something specific? Or is that just a random thought?
Hobs asked: "Just want to know...do I keep following the comment thread here? Or are you gonna have a separate post on it?"
Because I consider much of this comments thread unproductive, I probably will not allow comments on such a post. People can email me if they have genuine concerns.
Micah: A lot of what I watch in movies and on TV is ungodly. That's not really up for debate. So then the real question is: since God is omnipresent, shouldn't we live more holy lives knowing that He is everywhere we are? And no, I wouldn't call my concerns "false-piety" or even "Gnostic."
=)
Casey
Rusty--not responding to anything specific, just the thread as a whole. It's the only consistent thing for you to do.
Or, you can come up with a different way to evaluate art.
Micah and I (we haven't compared notes on this really, just I know him a little, and have read what he's saying here) aren't saying it's unimportant to think about what you watch and why (btw, 30 seconds finding out about the movie before you plopped down money on a ticket for that piece of junk would've saved you a lot of grief).
It's the way you're going about it that smacks of gnosticism, pietism and legalism. Also some pretty shallow thinking. That's probably the other thing that got us going...we're just not used to it from ya.
Hobster,
You said, “Rusty--not responding to anything specific, just the thread as a whole. It's the only consistent thing for you to do.”
The only consistent thing for me to do is to stop watching Star Wars? I find your comment humorous because I haven’t declared any specific standards for movies in this entry. It appears to me that what you’ve done is take a genuine concern for personal holiness and somehow twisted that into “Gnosticism, pietism and legalism.”
You said, “Or, you can come up with a different way to evaluate art.”
Since I haven’t clearly explained how I “evaluate art” [entertainment?] I wonder how you are able to determine how I evaluate art/entertainment? What I have expressed is a desire to not needlessly expose myself to sinful content. I desire to please the Lord.
You said, “Micah and I (we haven't compared notes on this really, just I know him a little, and have read what he's saying here) aren't saying it's unimportant to think about what you watch and why…”
Don’t you also know me a little?
I’m glad you aren’t saying it’s unimportant to think about what you watch and why – though I wonder how this is consistent, after I expressed just that, you accuse me of being “Gnostic, legalistic and pietistic.”
You said, “…btw, 30 seconds finding out about the movie before you plopped down money on a ticket for that piece of junk would've saved you a lot of grief).”
Yup, I got careless for one afternoon. I allowed two Christian friends who I was meeting at the theater to choose a movie for us, which we knew nothing about. I made a mistake. I am normally more careful. But I already knew how to check for movie content beforehand =). We all left the movie within five minutes, exchanged our tickets for Invincible.
You said, “It's the way you're going about it that smacks of gnosticism, pietism and legalism.”
My concerns about holiness “smacks of Gnosticism, pietism and legalism?” I am disappointed that you would accuse me of such things. This is an utter falsehood. Do I come across as the legalistic type? Let’s review my life for a moment: I dance, I drink alcohol responsibly (though rarely), I go to the movies, I hang out (and work for) Starbucks.
You said, “Also some pretty shallow thinking. That's probably the other thing that got us going...we're just not used to it from ya.”
A desire to make positive changes in my life is shallow thinking? We will have to disagree here – though I have previously stated this above. I am disappointed that you would also accuse me of this.
Please, no more false accusations of Gnosticism (why is this everyone’s favorite derogatory term?), pietism or legalism.
How long will I keep this comments thread open? At this rate, not much longer.
Casey
/me looks around and decides to talk about it another time, aka over coffee in AZ with great minds pooled together.
"A simple truth applied is better than a concept truth understood."
E.g. WWJD
Are we supposed to be followers of Christ or not? I want to do what Jesus would do. Is this shallow? I hope not since I am a disciple (follower) of Christ.
Thanks Case for applying the simple truths.
replace "concept" with "complex"
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