Reformed issues about the gospel - Part 2

Hello again Dee,

You said: “I am still confused on God choosing to have greater love for his chosen. Doesn't that mean that God's love is not perfect as Christians have told me? How can a perfect being love less then perfectly? That doesn't make sense to me.”

How does God choosing to give His special love to some make His love imperfect? I fail to see the connection.

Do you understand “perfect love” to mean: loving everyone and everything the same?

You continued: “And if that is true then He created Hell for those whom He did not choose. So are you saying that God loves people but despite his love for those he did not choose he wants them to go to hell? Is this correct?”

Once you answer my above two questions I should have a better idea of how to answer this question =).

You said: “And on the regeneration, I think that’s the right word, you are saying that I can not choose to believe that Jesus died for my sins unless I am one of the lucky ones?”

Rather than using terms like “lucky” to describe God’s choice in salvation, let’s use Biblical terminology. Ephesians says that those chosen by God are “blessed,” as chosen according to “the kind intention of His will,” “to the praise of the glory of His grace,” and “which He freely bestowed on us.” Therefore God’s choice is not according to luck. Nor is God’s choice determined by man’s choice, as though there was something in man – like his will – that makes him desirable to God. God’s choice is solely according to His purpose, so that He will receive glory in salvation which is given by grace.

You said: “I’m confused...it sounds like your saying that unless I am chosen against my will then God never loved me and wants me in hell.”

In my previous email, I explained that God loves all people in that He bestows on them common grace, even though they do not deserve it. Matthew 5:45 was a passage I cited to support my belief. I also explained that God reserves His special love for those whom He chooses to save. I cited Romans 9:6-18 in defense of this idea. But there is a difference between these two kinds of love. One is given to all men, and does not refer to salvation. The other is given solely to the elect of God, chosen for salvation. You have not responded to either of my comments on this subject.

So when you say that “God never loved me…” I assume you refer to His special love for His people? Obviously, I do not know if God has chosen you for salvation – and I cited Deuteronomy 29:29 in our prior exchange to support my belief.

Can I ask if you believe that all people deserve to receive God’s special love? Do you believe all people should receive God’s special love?

You are correct that God must choose people against their will … that is, sinners, in and of themselves, will never, ever choose God apart from His grace. God has chosen His elect people before the foundation of the world not according to anything they have done (Ephesians 1 – which I cited in my previous email), and God must raise our spiritually dead nature to life. Two emails ago I cited Ephesians 2:5: “5 even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved).”

God must make us alive. We cannot make ourselves alive. Notice that God making us spiritually alive to God is directly tied to God’s grace in salvation, for Paul continues his thought with: “by grace you have been saved.” We must be raised to spiritual life before we can repent and believe.

Do you believe that we can change ourselves from being spiritually dead (Eph 2:1) to being spiritually alive (Eph 2:5)? How do you understand these texts?

Do you believe that sinners, dead in their sins, can repent and believe?

You said: “One of my Christian friends told me that God created me in His image, why would he want someone in his image to go to hell?”

Your friend is correct that all human beings are created in the image of God (Genesis 1:26).

When you said: “why would [God] want someone in His image to go to Hell?” are you referring to God’s moral will or His decreed will? Refer to my previous email for my explanation of these concepts.

You continued your thought: “That is really hard to swallow and is hard for me to do what you said, "ask God's mercy on me and repent."”

I believe that God is the sovereign King and Ruler over all creation, including matters of salvation – and the reason I believe this is because the Bible teaches it. Why do you believe what you believe? If you derive your beliefs from Scripture, please provide Scriptural arguments, and offer interaction with the texts I’m providing =).

You said: “Why would I want to be associated with a God that loves some of his own creation more then others. That is not perfect love, that is arbitrary love.”

Sounds like you have your mind made up =). You have an interesting philosophy, but where does Scripture support your beliefs?

When you said: “Why would I want to be associated with a God that loves some of His own creation more than others,” are you referring to God’s special love for His elect people?

I won’t ask you to define “perfect love” here since I asked that above.

You said: “This is how I thought of it: it would be like me having kids all in my image and those kids all rebelling against me, but since they are MY kids I still love them and want the best for all of them. At the very least, if I love them I would never want any of them to go to hell.”

You need to define how you are using the term “want” here. Are you referring to God’s moral will or decreed will?

I hope our conversation is making more sense. I am certainly gaining a better grasp at where you are coming from. Please answer all of my questions, as it will greatly benefit our future discussions.

Saved by free grace,
Casey Ryan
AOMin