Friday, June 16, 2006

Let's Stay Focused, Shall We?

The following is a continuation from yesterday's entry. Dennis sent his response to me this morning. Obviously I ignored much of his email so we could stay on track. But lemme tell ya, it was difficult not to answer the rest of his claims. Very tempting. Mariep, this update was entirely for you =)

Here is Dennis' email:
Hi Casey,

I don't know you so let me say that my answer may not be the most gracious! I have been attacking Calvinism for the past several weeks on several sites. In all of that time, with a flood of responses, the most common argument is that "I don't understand Calvinism". So to say I am a little sick of this line of that line of non-defense is an understatement. I understand Calvinism very well and totally reject it as a false system that rather than glorifying God, smears His lovely Person and name.

John Owen was a horrible writer. He never felt an obligation to help his readers understand his points. That's why, to me, it was refreshing that he had this simple outline supposedly teaching (in the face of many scriptures to the contrary) Limited Atonement.

His argument in it's most basic form is that the alternative to Calvinism is Universalism. That's not true of course, but he knows that Universalism is unpalatable to his Christian opposers, so his desire was to "box them in" with his (to me) incomplete look at the Scriptures.

I destroyed his "box" with the scripture. I suggest you read it again. As with Calvinism, to destroy one point is to destroy the whole system.

And may I suggest that Calvinist's are sinners just like anyone else until they come to Christ. He is the ONE Mediator between God and man, and He is the One that all of us who claim His name should make central to our Scriptural understanding. This will be to HIS Glory and not the glory of a system or a theologian, no matter how brilliant that individual may have been. After all, Christ revealed Himself to ignorant fishermen and made shining spiritual stars of them to His own eternal glory!.

Calvinist's believe they can skip to God in eternity past to understand the Scriptures. NOT! We must begin and end with CHRIST as the key to the Scriptures.He Himself is the chief revelation of God to man, and so is the subject of the Book of God.

Calvin himself made MANY errors as did the church so called "fathers"! They themselves often persecuted true believers even unto DEATH! So let's follow Christ, be glad for every Christian's salvation and seek to build one another up in THE FAITH, not a system that condemns without pity in some and builds pride in others.

In Christ, Dennis


My short reply:
Dennis,

I advise you to carefully reread my previous email. Nowhere did I say that you "don't understand Calvinism." What I said was that you appeared to misapprehend John Owen's question. I pointed out that rather than answering John Owen's question, you came up with an entirely different scenario and began defending that new scenario. But to answer Owen's question you must remain with the scenario Owen talks about.

Casey Ryan
AOMin

6 Comments:

At 1:06 PM, Blogger MarieP said...

Casey,

WOW! I can see why it was tempting to answer the whole email. It sounds like his mind of made up, and it appears his bark is worse than his bite. He didn't even respond to a word you said.

What makes him think Calvinism does not glorify God? That objection always leaves me scratching my head.

 
At 1:07 PM, Blogger MarieP said...

PS- At least he realizes that once you reject one point, you can't really hold to the others without redefining them.

 
At 4:06 PM, Blogger Lockheed said...

IN TWO QUESTIONS I'VE PROVEN YOUR DOCTRINE IS LIQUID!

 
At 4:57 AM, Blogger kletois said...

Dennis has just shown us that he doesn't know Calvinism at all. Sorry Dennis if this upsets you. If you want this charge to end, stop typing.

 
At 2:52 PM, Blogger Adam said...

Dang.


on and Case, "Scripture Alone" just arrived. I might put a pause on Edwards bio and read it.

 
At 10:59 PM, Blogger Jonathan Roberts said...

Yo Case!

I've been rather amused at these past exchanges between you and Dennis. I love your simplicity; I'm beginning to understand how essential it is when having these conversations to deal with one issue at a time and have tremendous grace and patience towards all who listen.

I am utterly thankful for God's unmerited grace towards me for allowing me to understand this issue in light of scripture. After all, it's not a system of theology or any particular theologian that we adhere to and derive all of our dotrine and beliefs from, but the very God-breathed scriptures.

I am encouraged. I'll pray for you and for this discussion. ;)

 

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